Episode 109: Angela Stanton – Is Your Diet Giving You Migraines?

who is angela stanton
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welcome to the human performance outliers podcasts with your hosts dr. Shaun Baker and Zak bitter at human performance outliers podcasts we dive into a wide range of topics revolving around health nutrition and physical fitness if you enjoy the show and wish to support us please visit patreon.com forward slash HP o podcast if you do not use patreon to still wish to support us please also consider checking out our PayPal page at PayPal dot me forward slash HP o pi the link to both of those can also be found in the show notes finally please consider subscribing to us on your favorite podcast listening platform now on to the next topic Im hoping that just to be very casual very good okay perfect I was telling Zach whats happened in the last but you know Ive been on this sort of ami dying one of the unfortunate negative side effects I just notice is it so what are the bad side effects your head falls off not anyway welcome for coming on you know for those who dont know and I know you I guess you specialize in headache type stuff but for those that dont know your background can you just kind of fill us in a little bit just a quick maybe five minute summary on on some of us of if you cant sure Andy thanks for having me on by the way my mind I started when I was about ten except that nobody knew it was my train it started what we today call sick recall vomiting syndrome IBS irritable bowel syndrome that kind of stuff and everybody just chug it up oh just a viral infection go home and it really didnt start to hurt until in my late 20s and was not diagnosed until my mate to late 30s of having migraines and so after so many years of really having a horrific time and increasingly so so rather than tapering off even postmenopausal or they tell you you lose it no it increased so you got to the point where I said okay thats it a cradle jobs I was teaching in university I was in research in Germany at Max Planck Institute so thats it Im coming home and Im gonna figure this out so this happened about 1112 years ago and I read every single book every single academic article whatever you can think of to try to figure out what is it that my granny hasnt been discovered what do the researchers miss what is this thing that everybody is giving different kind of drugs for and nothing is actually healthy and Sarah took me several years of reading and studying until I finally it sort of kind of pumped in this was an electrolyte imbalance and thats how it all started I started to experiment on me and then slowly I started to share to other people who were Mariners and then I published a book the first edition which is no longer sold my its a second edition and it became really popular and Im Facebook group and so we sort of kind of took off from there so by now thousands of people have been following my protocol and I might be Im free and medicine free so its to you because you said you worked in the box plunk and it stood over here in Germany is that exactly Im not sure I know its somewhere in Germany I dont even know how many locations I was in inna which is somewhere on the eastern part of Germany I think it used to be monk to the East German part what it was still split and I think that that particular Department closed now my PhD is actually in economics and my dissertation in neuroscience so I was at the Max Planck Institute at the Institute of economics but working on neuroscience so it was a very so many degrees actually Nero economics which is neuroscience using economic models so I was within max flunking the economics department that is very thats an interesting combination Im just trying to think how that works and so I mean we can get into that a little bit thats kind of interesting but we had well weve seen some of the research coming out of Mikes Blanc around radioisotopes so thats well thats what Im I know Ive had to familiar with them looking at human diet based on radio you know stable ready study data so so you have a doctorate in economics but you focus on neuro economics and thats thats thats very fasting so let it because a lot of theres a lot of people have headaches you know various types of migraines are just one subcat or yours can you talk about headaches in general and then specifically migraine headaches and what do we think is going on pathophysiological II because I mean I think its known but I mean can you talk about for the people that dont know sure uh headaches in general can be from all reasons it can be from stress it can be from like foods like enough water hot cold not enough sleep thats really a pain and its very easy to define you have a pain you take some over-the-counter painkillers and dairy twerent migraines and there are some other kind clusters headaches a whole series of headaches the headache the international honey Society has a huge list of different kind of headaches migraine doesnt actually have to have a pain associated with it so its a not really a headache I know that is what people associate with it but it really is I call it a cascade hormonal cascade so it isnt starting as a result of a hormonal imbalance but the first symptoms are anxiety and all associated symptoms such as your digestion shuts down Savannah vomiting diarrhea so we have a whole set of steps which is a cascade that leads to migraine but it has a whole lot of symptoms before the pain period actually arrives if it arrives like I said many migraines dont even come into pain so the symptoms of a migraine and to know that you have a migraine it really isnt necessary the pain it can be that youre very sensitive to light very sensitive to sounds a smell is especially most of us Mariners have very much enhanced sensory organs and so we respond to some of these stimuli that for other people just oh well I smell something for us it could be excruciating the painful and so the actual definition of migraine in to me as a migraine as a scientist it is quite wrong it is not a disease it is not a neurological disease it is definitely not a vascular disease which is what it has been known for a long time so many of the medications treat the rest core aspects of it a lot of migrants have put on blood pressure reducing medications a lot of doctors will put Mariners on neurological drugs even epileptic seizure medications and so those are completely misunderstood brain functions so the way I see migraine is that it is genetic we know that that is being proven and shown and there are a whole lot of very specific ionic channels that are disrupted by migraine so I look at it as channel of athletes in a lot but they would be is when a lot of minor dynamic channels are not working the way that he should be working so in a case of a migraine or given that the migraine brain is so hyper excited in so many of our sensory organ neurons have multiple connections these are all studies already existing just few people have connected to dots yet given that they have so many more connections in a migraine brain associated with the sensory neurons the activity is more sodium its really that simple because of the action potentials that are increased and theyre quite different in a migraine brain from a regular brain so in my summary for what migraine is it is really an an insufficient electrolyte mineral content so we use a lot more sodium than other people do and as a result we need to replace a lot more sodium and also the role of carbohydrates should really not be underestimated yeah Angela I was gonna ask you about that with you know I guess its relatively recent when we look at kind of the lifespan of when we started documenting human nutrition but you know there has been a push to lower sodium or try to get it like as low as you can have we did we see like Ive kind of a spike in migraines were like folks who maybe had the migraine brain before but were getting ample amounts of sodium it kind of helped them through it or masked it and then now it went the lowering see these things kind of surface a little more yes I believe it so its a very good question I dont think they have been studies per se but in looking at reading literature I couldnt help but notice that there were fewer Mikan cases of course in the 20th century in a 19th century but then of course the population was also less so theres there are no studies that measure the ratio of whether its an increase in general numbers together with a population or did an increasing trend but I did notice some time ago somebody put an article in front of me and it was really interesting because in that particular paper they looked at it was a hormonal article for menstrual periods you know but they were looking at women and they were looking to see how whether during a period at their sodium increased or was it the potassium increase of what actually happened and as a result they had all the electrolyte tests published in this particular article and it was extremely interesting to see that were way today considered to be normal sodium ranges on a blood test was way off at that time every single person today if those women were tested today there would be way hypernatremia come in is the the amount of the sodium level they had was extremely high and looking at it today I can clearly see that yes perhaps what we have is not sufficient plus many of the migrants when they have an electrolyte test they come out lower in sodium then on the lower level or sometimes even below the norm so theyre clearly using more sodium and there is one paper at least that I found from 1951 that shows that in the urine mariners excrete about 50% more sodium so there is an increased need for Mariner for sodium in migraineurs I dont know if there were greater associations with migraine earlier before the salt restriction but we also have to edit that time less carbohydrates were consumed as well so there are many factors that affect this question and so let me ask you about because you had initially you talked about cyclical vomiting irritable bowel syndrome do you see a rule is there known association between gut problems and migrant headaches I wouldnt say its known it is known to me and its known to the people who work with me but Im not quite sure how well science appreciates that since they have different names if you have cyclical vomiting syndrome it is considered to be an independent condition correct so then they would not consider that as part of just simply one step of migraine yeah what I find is a lot of teenage boys going through puberty from about age through 1617 I deal with a lot of boys who have cyclic vomiting syndrome and also IBS both of those are primarily migraine programs we have to recall them programs and it kind of serve part of the development phase of the migraine brain and so these boys were me move them on to the cornea diet completely cutting all vegetables everything out they stopped because it is actually apparently caused by carbohydrates yeah interesting and before we get too much into the end of the dietary fix I just wanted I just want to sort of pick apart some more of the pathophysiology because you talked about it being a channel appa the– whereas the the transporters that move these particular ions across some membranes are somehow damaged or not working correctly and do we have an idea what may cause that channel appa the– I know when we see leaky gut you know theres you know and we Sweden we see when leaky gut occurs we also see disruptions in the blood-brain barrier and so I wonder you know I just wonder if theres a similar relationship with that I dont know if you delve into that much and what youre describing our physiological consequences of a diet but theyre not necessarily genetic the migraine brain is a genetic setup for channel office so of the if you go to gene cards that or I believe it is where the genetic human genome databases the link I can send you later and you just type you migraine and and all the genes the snips associated with migraine brain will pop up youre gonna see the first ten are all ionic channel variances and the most prominent the first one I doing is a calcium channel variance sodium potassium there are some glucose transporters that are not working properly insulin is up there as well so its very clearly a genetic modification or variable latina its really hard for us to tell whos the original and who is the the mutated or the variant and I have a theory for this which Im hoping one day to publish in a journal that permits some sort of hypothesis where if you look at nature and you look at wild animals what youre gonna see theyre extremely alert all the time and these alertness really predisposes the brain to be a certain set up in terms of electrolytes because of the hyperexcitability and it is possible that the migraine brain is just simply a lack of adaptation to the more modern lifestyle because if you take them a kind of lifestyle that does not stimulate over ladies channels to you have to react and recharge and do different things then they dont have a problem I dont have problem as long as I know how to prevent the over stimulation and these channels to have to work and do stuff theyre not used to doing Im doing fine so Im suspecting this is probably a gennadiy primary condition and modern human just change in the my go distinct yeah I mean you know kind of looking up some research on this and a relationship between you know IBS irritable bowel syndrome and headaches in general and we see something like the give up to 50% of people with IBS have frequent headaches not necessarily migraine but they do have some sort of headache issues and something like 10 to 20 percent of the population seems to suffer from migraine headaches so its fairly unless youve seen data that the de quatre you know contradicts that but thats thats what I have read recently lets get into because you mentioned a carnivore diet obviously I my ears perked up when I heard that and you know Ive been Ive been kind of expounding what I think is a some of the virtues and actually talked to me about how you well just talking about diet in general and how you seem yeah I know youve mentioned carbohydrates and carbohydrates basically generally mean plants in general although there are some carbohydrates you get some from animal source food things like dairy and eggs to us to some degree and even some some meat if its particularly fresh so talk to us a little bit about diet in general and then how you are using that with some of your migraine clients okay cool its a very complex question so let me backtrack a little bit and talk a little bit about the carbohydrate connection and then I get into the diet completely coincidentally theres a medical manual I have I believe I dont know a tradition or ninth edition or whatever I have by Longo I know and its a medical manual which youre probably familiar with its a little one its not big bit specific and page four on the bottom it explains that when glucose enters the cells water and sodium both be part this is something that it seems nobody realizes and I was really shocked to see that even doctors have talked to you had no idea about this and this is critical because whenever you have glucose entering the cells means that you either had an internal glucose release or you ate glucose so these are your two choices this particular paragraph refers to a diabetic increase but regardless its still glucose enters the cells it will remove sodium and water so here is the biggest electrolyte disrupting problem if glucose enters the cells they need to move sodium which is disrupted and removed the most important element in a migraine brain for action potential and so this is my first thought this was something totally coincidental and once I understood this I started to experiment so what is the connection between me eating and at that time I was really looking at just standard that most everybody knows carbohydrates I still ate grains we stole it fruits vegetables seeds nuts even sweets at that time I had no idea were talking about 10 years ago and I just covered that every time I do that the one thing that I discovered right away was edema edema showing up on the ankles on the eyes wherever people get in different places so clearly the water was arriving and leading myself so then obviously this is true so salt and water both sleeper cells so if I myself left myself what am I using to create a create action potential in my brain and I didnt thats when I started to get migraines so they I saw a connection between the two so when I remove the salt Im starting to get problem but if I add the salt back Im

preventing the problem so this was the start of my discovering in terms of what migraine actually is and how to prevent it in what to do about it and then slowly I went on to the food connection so in terms of food it was over I would say three four years experimenting what kind of foods would we have to remove in order to reduce the level of carbohydrates to degree that Mariners could actually survive another migraine pain or migraine discomfort and whatever discomfort side effects they had and so at the very beginning of my migraine group which is now my main miking migraine group is over five years old I still bread and other things are still recommended just high migraine whole brain items and I had a test that I called the the glucose threshold test in rage I asked people to drink up a a glass of I believe it was crammed juice because we could tell precisely or eat a couple blueberries so we kind of sort of knew how many carbs were in there and to see did they get a migraine didnt I get in my again what kind of symptoms a big yet did they see and you Dima any other symptoms and it was not a very popular test because everybody always ended up in a migraine so we stopped doing this but this gave me the first instance of understanding that for so its not just me it is all other migrants the same way sensitive to glucose coming in and we were more sensitive to glucose coming in from plant-based products came from animal-based products so milk does not seem to bother my Connors at all and if Im looking at the population I believe a very large percent of the population is lactose intolerant Mariners are the opposite nearly all are leftist tolerant so we if you look back the genetic findings about lactose genes discovery or popping in it was about, 12 fifteen thousand years ago in two separate tribes so it is specific to certain people and given that so many of the migrants over eighty percent have absolutely no problem with lactose and can completely enjoy collectors we are different from other people and perhaps different tried originally from our ancestry if we look back and so I dont consider carbohydrates from food from animal products equivalent to carbohydrates from plant products we dont seem to have the same problems from milk with the liver for example yes we do because that would be glycogen its the same kind of a glycogen straight glucose but lactose no its a combination of glucose and galactose so its not clearly immediately available we dont do like these enzymes which happening into denim so past the stomach and so it has a different reaction but glucose in general from any other food and its not fructose is very particular to glucose any food that we eat that is plant matter even salads it really doesnt matter what kind – theres a certain threshold which for a migraineurs very low so I for example cannot eat a bowl of salad some Mariners may be able to but I cant so there are differences we didnt Mariners as well but we all have the general identical behavior yeah I was I was looking about the relationship between glucose and migraine and well particularly metabolic syndrome an insulin resistance and we see that as people have higher levels of metabolic syndrome insulin resistance they have a higher symptomatic migraines I suppose you know and so do you find that to be the case of people that are that are metabolically unhealthy via things like insulin resistance tend to exhibit worse you know clinical symptoms for migraine headaches yes in fact let me reverse this I would have to say that we not testing a migraine every single migrant coming in has to run a test that I created in lieu of proper testing by the medical establishment which I which is a 5-hour blood glucose testing so they have to fast just like any other lapped us and then they have to eat something that is what we call protocol friendly it does not need to contain glucose but they need to eat it need to let us know what they ate and then have a five hour glucose test every 30 minutes taking blood and I got to find a migrant sufferer who join my group who does not have some form of insulin resistance which came first I would suspect that the insulin resistance is genetic for my granese because of the channel ography because of the fact that we cant tolerate carbohydrates we dont know what to do with the destruction of the electrolytes when carbohydrates removed sodium without to NAWAPA the– its impossible for the ionic channels to figure out how to suddenly be filled with sodium unless of course we add massive sodiums which is what we do and so I am not sure which way to separate with which one is the chicken in between is the egg I that it is a condition similar to how some innate populations didnt like this gene for fructose for example perhaps migraineurs like the gene or have a variant for the inability to do anything with glucose I mean is a medical student I remember reading about these sodium gated glucose channels and and you know its thats way way way back in the deep recesses of my mind because this you know you dont have much data take an application of this but I wonder you know could you talk about an increased need for sodium for people on and on experiencing migrants but does that increase need for sodium seem to be attenuated when we drop carbohydrate out of the diet that is to say can you can you get away with less sodium in the night if you if you go on a on a lower carbohydrate or even you know a carbohydrate free diet yes so there are two answers to this because it depends also on individual activity like I am like you I lift weights and also the key box so my sodium need is going to be much higher than somebody it was just sitting at home and doing nothing but yes so what I found was is that the wages manifests is if we increase sodium in our diet artificially we keep on adding sodium temporarily this is going to nudge the whole system into a higher sodium level we know that that it isnt just the sodium gated glucose channels we do need that yes glucose needs to sodium molecules to get into the cell but there are additional problems with glucose because obviously its also in our blood before it gets into cells and it causes trouble for the blood vessels as well much of the medication that Mariners get they could be vasoconstrictors so when were talking about glucose being in the blood in excess as well as the vs of constricting drug were talking about trouble right away and so what I found was is that if we removed glucose from the Mariners diet as much as possible so there are alternatives right theres a local high fat diet and Im just talking the most common ones that we used today the local high fat which would be about 60% fat and about 20% of the calories coming from carbohydrates and 20 from protein given take or there could be a ketogenic diet lots of variations but the one that I use is starting is 80% fat and 16% protein and 4% carbohydrates and then theres of course a carnivore so a carnivore has two kinds of one that I called this arrow card which does not contain dairy and then one regular but she does particularly for my donors because we do really good with dairy and so when Im looking at the different groups I do find that the sodium requirements differ the most sodium requirement actually is an acute Aegina diet which I found really fascinating but I think that perhaps is because as the bodys burning is on fat what more water is leaving the body as well and some more salt washes out so that would make a lot of sense we start out with sort of kind of ratio of sodium to potassium potassium potassium to certain ratio which becomes less and less important as you have toward a Quadra diet so there is a decrease in the need to consider increasing extra sodium and to the monitor what were doing as we have closer to the corner or diet so theres a trend at least within my groups in my trainers that they start with the protocol diet and the protocol is quite a complicated diet which we can talk about if thats interested interesting to you then they move to the ketogenic diet usually in between if I find it they have insulin resistance without exception every one of them is placed on the carnivore diet so they have no choice and one of the reasons wedding have no choice is because of reactive hypoglycemia so we want to avoid a very low blood sugar which the coin every diet can avoid but in general most of them are geared toward the ketogenic diet and then once they were there interesting me do Margaret back to the carnival diet or they dont go to kill oceanic so quite a war seems to be the ideal and we dont really need to measure salt that much at that point yeah I mean your comment on the ketogenic diet and salt wasting I mean as we know insulin has effect on renal handling of sodium and water and the net effect is to you know reabsorb that and so on our insulin is lowered as it undoubtedly does on a ketogenic style diet and often on a converse tonight we tend to you know not have as much salt we lose we lose more faults so so let me ask you a little bit about so how long have you been doing this protocol and can it talk to talk to us about the successes or lack of success youve had in potential issues with with migraine on this diet on this diet stone sure well first I mean officially though my doing group opened about five and a half years ago this was simultaneous with the release of my first book and the first book was only about me it was my personal experience of how I became I doing free and then at that time there was not my success I had a really difficult time to get people to understand what this is about because my idea was so different from anyone else increase salt and yes you can stop all medication is serious this is a serious disease if you need medication and we have to have it and so I had a really difficult time I was literally virtually kicked out of every single Facebook my game group because when I went there and I notice that every single one of them was just talking about medications and nothing else and people were just competing about taking medications well Im taking this good luck to you Im here is hoping and sorry can you just just just interrupt here because I get a lot of people arent for me what sort of medications are typically prescribed for migraines and what is supposably the mechanism of action by which they they work Im familiar with some of them but Im certainly not Im not a neurologist and not a headache specialist so if you dont mind just kind of giving us an idea what the standard of care for migraine is currently and then and then we can devolve we can delve into the more diet based approach sure absolutely excellent so in my last book that I published a couple years ago I have 30 medications that I call drugs of shame and the number one medication that is being prescribed all the time is top of max I took if you call which is an anticonvulsant medication usually prescribed for seizures and which originally actually was a weight loss drug I believe which fell then FDA approved for them so that medication is a wall voltage-gated calcium channel blocker it also blocks some sodium channels but calcium is a primary and calcium is nearly the last stage before an action potentials so if theres a voltage and voltage in the brain is message between neurons so if one is say Im running a flower and and the the message of the flower scent is going to be passed on from one urine to the next it has to be the calcium that has to enter the cell and literally kicked in their transmitters out to the next neuron in order for for that neuron to know that hey theres a message theres a scent coming in and so if theres enough sand theres a big signal going around then I will recognize the scent and so they stopped this activity by blocking the calcium channels so the idea behind this is that if youre not stimulating the brain or or you prevent the brain from messaging a stimulus from one neuron to the next then youre going to reduce the pain this isnt true but it certainly reduces the messages – probably the biggest problem that I find is in addition to all side effects is that neurons communicate and by creating connections so when a communication between two neurons stops then actually it degenerates the connection disappears and so these drugs end up being degenerative another kind of drug and of course theres several several drugs like this this is just the most typical one another one brand is the SSRI which is a certain reuptake inhibitors selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and are some versions of snr eyes as a race whatever there are many kinds and what these do is these are under the premise that myelin is caused by lack of serotonin for whatever reason and what they do is think of the brain and neuron as a sink and you dont think you have a little overflow so if you leave the water running then once the water reaches up to a certain level the overflow will allow the water to to run out the inhibitor inhibition of the reuptake is called reuptake in the neurons so the inhibition of this would be is that now you plug in that home so when you leave the faucet running this is going to overflow and so even though it may be a small trickle initially coming into your sink within a day it probably is going to be a huge flaw in your house so this is what is a certain exactlys certainty uptake inhibitors and there are many about drugs Aggies prozac is one of them is very common can you think of a name that oh there is some mm-hmm I cant even think of name Sony came to me and any but theyre just honest of them its just ridiculous how many people are put on these drugs and of course they end up in a lot of serotonin which has a lot of other issues because most of the serotonin actually isnt good so its going to increase IPs another group of drugs is going to be some sort of beta blocker or ace inhibitors something to do with the vascular structure to reduce blood pressure which is very fascinating to me because I had yet to meet them my grenier who has high blood pressure we all have cell clinically low blood pressure so to give a mega nerd a medication that lowers it further I think its a major problem in addition to the fact that it doesnt work it can actually cause heart we have many miners who ended up with heart damage from drugs like this and propranolol would be a mother issue if I pronounced that properly that is the the biggest killer medication that people are not getting and so we try to pull every one of them off right away this episode of human performance outliers is brought to you by fellow carnivore and LegalShield associate Doug Lee through LegalShield smartphone app Doug is helping to level the playing field by bringing affordable legal services to everyone right on their phones for just twenty four ninety-five a month families have instant access to a local team of lawyers working on your behalf providing legal advice traffic violation assistance will preperation IRS audit assistance Family and domestic services and contract and document review just to name a few Doug also offers ID shield the most comprehensive identity protection and recovery service in all of North America members get access to a licensed private investigator to help resolve any identity theft issues that arise last year alone there were more than 780 reported data breaches compromising the identities of nearly a hundred and seventy million people responding quickly to ID theft is the best way to prevent serious complications and protect your good name Doug offers business plans and gun owners plans as well so head over to Doug Lee info thats do you GL e e dot INF o to get the app and learn more about how Legal Shield has been protecting families for over 40 years yes so what youre saying is migraine headaches are not caused by a pharmaceutical drug deficiency yeah so I mean and then thats thats very common in all of our many of our conditions that we often just kind of throw these drugs yeah so lets go lets get lets lets delve a little bit more into the dietary protocols and how those things tend to work sure so I have several protocols the original protocol that I started with which was very difficult to implement and to even figure out has now and its still being updated regularly I am totally open to changes its now a fully low carb high fat diet we dont allow any grains none whatsoever not even grain substitutes like no almond flour bread or anything like that so we just simply dont allow them unless you dont allow we really dont allow I have some administrators in

the group who just jump on anyone who mentions anything that they eat that has any kind of a grain equivalent in there and were not talking which is gluten grains but all grains including corn rice flax seeds just simply no grains at all we also caught all starches out so nobody is eating potatoes or most carrots and your discharges they all cut out all sweeteners not just sugar or honey but also sugar substitutes or Naturals everything is removed not because it caused my game but because of their possible connection to insulin resistance and obesity given Mariners have a genetic predisposition to is an existence so that is removed we also remove all vegetable and seed oils and not oils so they cant use that at all not even cold our other oils like crude oils like olive oils coconut oils and avocado oil these I can use but only cold as condiments so they cannot heat it so if they want to cook you get anything thats fat it has to be animal fat so we use a lot of animal fat we encourage only whole foods so cold cuts a maybe if you really run out of time and you have no other choice or you travel but generally speaking we are even in the local pie that we recommend red meat if its chicken we dont recommend the breast unless somebody has run away ketones which we cant talk about later then then I do you try to get all of our foods from real food including protein so no protein shakes no shakes at all no fruits no juices the protein shake theres a little bit of a variant on that for those who are athletically who really active but for the general my gang group no protein shakes at all and for the fruits that they really only recommend like there is raspberries and strawberries and that was now it may change now because we have the discovered connection to oxalate so slowly moving away from that and some of the legumes beans has been our best source in spite of like tents which are in there we now have learned how to cook collectives out of it and their starch and they heavy but they have so much nutrients and I have some vegetarians in the group so they had to make some allowance there so legumes to some degree not much and certain kinds like like beans have referred to some other kinds we kind of sort of try to go around the area in such a way that theyre still okay even though we dont recommend it for the average marketer but if youre a vegetarian by all means vegan actually to be a vegan and the Migron air is an oxymoron so we remove vegans if you can its totally up to them I totally understand their ethical concerns and all and I support whatever they believe but its not compatible with my brain brain so we removed them from veganism if they can and they have been very successful with several who are not quite a horse which is really fascinating to me we encourage dairy and encourage milk tremendously because it is an electrolyte if you consider it doesnt have enough salt so we sometimes have to salt milk I sold my milk and cheeses heavy cream we all just thrive on that and the other thing that I found is migraineurs if they are overweight is usually because of the drugs once they stop the drug dont stay actually below normal weight so for us having a little extra cream or heavy animal fat no problem were not actually gaining any weight on if youre just simply preventing the stopping of or the losing away so we have quite a limited diet in terms of vegetables is mostly the high fiber low carbohydrate thus a lights in the the broccoli and these can I do anything yet oh I know by now what they are if it the typical keto type even on in the local pie that only they can eat more of it and in terms of the fats butter be very happy with butter pork lard beef tallow duck fat we just love duck fat so this would be the standard protocol and major link result amount to me I have a potassium sodium very sure we try to keep ahold of using the USDA database Angela have you seen any success perhaps most notably within your vegetarian groups with just doing an increased like electrolyte solution to kind of increase and have those those levels balanced out already yes and no first those who also already had consumed eggs and maybe fish so I get thats called elector over I believe they are sufficient if they modulate electrolyze and it cut out those kind of elements that are high cards like grains and rice these kind of things define that kind of a food is tolerable in with respect to my grain brain if they dont drink milk and dont eat eggs and dont eat fish or not okay Bob that cannot be resolved with electrolytes so long because everything they eat is carbohydrate and cart I see migraine as a carbohydrate intolerance and so since thats all they eat all day long I have not seen any sufficient improvement they may be able to abort of one particular migraine coming on but its not possible to prevent it do you that Aryans who are following a high fat low carb vegetarian diet just may be focusing heavily on some of those food fats you mentioned as well as the if theyre lacto-ovo more eggs and fish yes I have several electro and theyre much more successful its still not a hundred percent as a result of too much vegetables and also because of all the chemicals in them prevent the anti nutrients that prevent a nutrient absorption which would be the benefit for us the for migraine brain particulars who rebuild the myelin which is damaged which is the the the brain is basically the white matter for all the neurons go through which get insulated that is damaged for Mariners and also for people with seizures by eating too much glucose and insulin so we can rebuild that by cutting that back but if theres a vegan or a vegetarian who doesnt eat enough animal matter thats not happening so theyre not able to be successful now right now yeah Angeles interesting you you commented about a mile and I wasnt aware of that was an issue with with migraine headaches that there was damage to the myelin and myelin again like you pointed out was the insulin that surrounds the nerves it helps to speed up the conduction signals but there Ive seen some animal data looking at multiple sclerosis which also has a problem demyelination and theyve shown that at least in some animals cities that they could Riemann ate those animals but only if they got adequate sufficient cholesterol within their diets they had to augment their diet with cholesterol which means obviously animal-based food because no cholesterol implants for that ramallah nation to be able to a curse I think thats a fascinating facet which I was not aware of with migraine headaches right and its a very important point because you very well know that plants have plant sterols right but the plant sterols actually have a very bad habit of overcrowding and cutting out cholesterol so even a vegan who converts to say carnivore diet has a really hard time because it takes a long time for the cells to be replaced such that they can actually use cholesterol but yes we increase cholesterol so eggs are encouraged egg yolks Im tremendously encouraged more so than egg whites because we want to rebuild our cholesterol and it is ironic as you very well know Im sure from your experience that our cholesterol profile actually improves by eating a lot of cholesterol and by eating a lot of animal fats so we all end up with much better cholesterol profile than we had before but in the process as our cells are capable of replacing themselves and this is particularly so when we enter fasting periods time restricted fasting or intermittent fasting that we can do in carnivore or in keto diet this forces changes in our body and I think that one of the change is one of the changes that its probably happening is the myelin because you know its really difficult to explain but let me explain my first time and I entered ketosis it was totally by accident I didnt intend to it just simply didnt eat for a day didnt have time to eat and by the by the evening I was in ketosis and the biggest difference was for me was that well my brain is silent I dont hear my brain this was the most amazing experience as a micronesia you always hear your brain theres a buzzing something is happening all the time and its on fire and some activity like Maris whatever something is always going on but the moment glucose and insulin are taken out of the brain to a sufficient level and instead fat is getting in there in a proper level it seems to silence the brain and that can only happen if the myelin and the surrounding areas are getting a break and theyre able to do they recovery to some degree it takes a long time six months to about a year for the migraine brain to getting a benefit from that god if then the magnetic goes out and has an I know Im just gonna say something stupid and ice cream a little bit of ice cream she may not come down with a migraine because theres enough protection that maybe the second ice cream she will come them into my game so theres gonna be a limit to it but just clearly a healing thats going on yeah I was going to ask you you know from us from a time standpoint what it what you typically see in clinical practice as far as how long they have to be on a particular diet and do you find that you know a carnival or diet tends to be the most effective one or do you find that you get equal results depending on the person and theres you know or does depend on severity and other factors or you know how would you steer people versus you know your protocol versus all you know ketogenic style versus a pure carnivore style and then what talk about the may be the length of time and in that Im sure theres not all migraine sufferers are exactly the same as far as severity frequency and so on and so forth so how do you how do you prioritize how you how you treat these people okay so its very good question i prioritize based on your PI bar blood test as we as I mentioned earlier everybody comes in with some sort of form of insulin resistance and it varies so the first priority is do they have reactive hypoglycemia and just for those who dont know what that is when somebody eats a lot of glucose the blood glucose will increase very fast and then when it falls back Tianas themselves of insulin it will go below what it was before and depending upon how deep that below is there are going to be variations some people crash way too low a healthy blood glucose would be defined as between 70 and 90 milligrams per deciliter and an unhealthy reactive hypoglycemia may go into the 60s Ive even seen it as well as 50s and that would be dangerous so a person like that could never ever consider the ketogenic diet right away because that assumes certain time restricted feeding and so this person clearly isnt ready for that also that person should not be eating carbohydrates so that person will be put on a carnivore diet where there will be more of the what I mentioned earlier the chicken breast for example because they have higher gluco genic amino acids so they will be put on a different kind of a menu from other people in order to make sure that their buddy has enough glucose their body is capable its another thing I found in not capable to make it this is quite different from other people who are not Mariners we have different problems that were facing facing in that the migraineurs buddy is not a liver its not able to create glycogen as easily and its not its refusing to create it for quite some time so we have quite a fighter so there are some physiological separations between what people do otherwise everybody starts out with the protocol and we have what I call the baseline so the baseline is when you cut out all the bad stuff and move on to all the healthy stuff and also increase water you havent mentioned it before but the only role Muglers come in dehydrated so thats another thing we calculate how much water they need in any to increase water and they need to increase salt with the water so once they reach this particular level which is the baseline then we decide what their next step is some migrants come in very very close to the baseline so they will get to this level within a day and theyre there and up they go some people just increase water we have people coming in who drink absolutely no water at all and their daily minimum maybe 13 glasses so you cant go from 0 to 13 in one step it has to be an increase of slow increase you do like a half a glass per day increase and monitor for edema or other kind of problems which you may have and then it can take a month to reach baseline just in water and then they also have to reach the baseline incoming sugar cutting the bad food and so forth so some people dont even start really the protocol for several months now assume that they are on the protocol and seemed like their baseline some people decide that this is sufficient for them this usually happens to people who are still younger and who havent been taking a lot of medications so there but it is not yet compromised to the point of inability to recover many of them can be covered within 3 to 4 weeks after they started protocol and then as long as they stay a protocol and they dont fall off the wagon which happens obviously to most most of them at the beginning particularly they are completely capable of preventing all their medications provided theyre not taking I mean all that migrants provided youre not taking medications if they do they also face the medications because some of them like I mentioned earlier the calcium channel blockers blockers sodium channel blockers it literally block these things so even if you take extra salt theres no guarantee that any extra salt will actually get it to the cells so we have to wait until they come off of these medications and there I dont allow them to come off of them before they feel completely migraine free so they have to be able to control everything and then with doctor permission and recommended dosage they can come off with the medication with our support and then they can decide whether they gonna stay on a protocol and go to carnivore or move to keto it seems that many many of them are now on keto even in our regular group but they said well Im meeting the keto diet or whatever so theres a little bit of a blur of where people are but it seems that everybody starts in protocol and then they moved toward keto and they move toward karna world and the majority right now are in some form of some from carnivore zero carb and about 800 or so on the ketogenic diet but there are a combined is over four thousand people so we are talking about a larger portion on a carnivore and protocol I mean its pretty interesting to have you know several thousand people doing this now and getting the feedback I mean its its you know as Ive watched this sort of thing grow over the last couple years its its pretty fascinating you know to see it expand like it is and you know I mean so far the results to be pretty good are you getting a lot of pushback from anywhere else for people suggesting that this is dangerous this is inappropriate you know we shouldnt we shouldnt allow people to eat me because its so bad for us and you know you know the typical sort of things that are out there what do you what do you are you are you dealing with that much I used to deal a lot more than I do now I think that one of the reasons why is because we have the group itself has a couple of really clever admins who check out the micron of people on check out where they coming from and we also have developed a questionnaire the people have to answer before they even enter the groups so we can tell where they stand and the first bad commented out of the group so in the group there are some skepticism yes we have a lot of skepticism so what we created was what we now call units this is totally Facebook appropriate in terms of whatever they decide if you can do we do and we have hundreds of documents uploaded for people to read and so now they put them into units so its almost like a school my name is cool so now I have to read you each one and they have to check mark when they read them so we know that who read and who didnt read it what they didnt read and so questions come up but in these units they are all the answers so that includes videos that they have to watch that includes scientific articles that I post any if its possible to do so or write it up and I put that

in or write a blog about it I write on several blogs and so we always post the blog articles in it for them so in group once theyre in the group I dont see that much of a problem I see some skepticism not resistance outside of the group yes tremendous amount of skepticism and resistance particularly Twitter and an even on Facebook and of course Im still blocked from all those groups where I was blocked five years ago and so some of the people who come in from those groups into this group tell us that they call me quack they have all kinds of names for me so yes we do and they have I had Big Pharma after me several times one of my blogs is followed by beer no because I was very anti statin and aspirin and anti cipro and isolating them some of that movement too and file the comment to the FDA and so yes I have received nasty letters a couple of them one went to the FBI right away yes there is some pushback and I can see why at one point I ran a survey in the group of how much money the average marketers spent a year prior to the protocol and if theres nobody under twenty thousand dollars a year and that usually just the medicine so it doesnt even include going to the emergency and I remember I went three times a month so Im sure others went at least that often right and so when youre looking at say just 20,000 a year cut from Big Pharma and a 15 to 30 percent of the population is a migraine or were talking with a huge financial burden thats going to be cut from the pharmaceuticals also doctors we have many specialists so what will happen if all people follow a simple logical way of healthy eating that is healthy for a migrant and that will prevent all migraines what is going to happen to these people so yes weve been getting quite a bit of pushback and every now and then people coming to the group with bad intentions but we catch them right away and we just remove them so its it has become much easier to deal with that yeah you know its interesting I think mm-hmm the folks at Bayer you know they dont get where they are today from a financial standpoint by people taking a couple couple aspirin maybe once a year on the off chance that they get a bad headache they make a lot of money when people take an aspirin every morning and every evening so like I would imagine folks with chronic migraines would have been off one of their biggest or maybe their original customer so right it makes sense that they would would come after you as unfortunate as it is um one question I had to kind of go back to when you were talking about I then I think I know the answer to this but Ill ask it anyways have you seen anything with the folks doing the carnivore using raw honey since technically its an animal product or is there any variances may be better to ask that between raw honey and some of these other sweeteners okay so even though its technically an animal product it is still from plant pollen right so we have to remember that the original part of honey what makes you sweet is from a flower so the bees add their own saliva to it but it doesnt make it into youre an animal product its still a plant product it is also high fructose so when were talking about high fructose corn syrup well honey is a high fructose syrup as a result of the honey of the honeybees or Obies of what and because its from Poland so it is not it is from fructose its really not from glucose and when the bees add it to it is to convert some about into glucose I dont know not a honey special its been honey is out because it also contributes exactly the same way as any other glucose would to a migraine so it really doesnt matter where the carbohydrates are coming from as long as its carbohydrate except for milk but even liver so as you know laborer hands glycogen and its quite a bit also some seafood has like mollusks will have a lot of glycogen in them those like glucose that will cause problem for a mariner that doesnt stop us from eating liver because it is still an animal product but we have to control for that with substantial salt afterwards but when it comes to foods that dont provide potassium and I think the key here is thats a food that you eat that may have high carbohydrates in it providing a potassium such that if you have to add salt after that youre not going to kill yourself with it so let me give you an example if you have a choice between eating honey or eating sweet potato if Im comparing the two and assume identical carbohydrate levels in terms of glucose and fructose whatever that is if I eat the honey and as a result of all the salt sodium that was removed from my cells I now we have to replenish the sodium I dont have enough potassium to balance that out so I will end up with an edema but if I the sweet potato it is a high potassium food item and so if I not sodium after that Im totally balanced so we have to look to see what else is in that food and if my Grenier is needs potassium for whatever reason and theres no chance for the my dinner to have a slice of salmon or or avocado well by all means grab a sweet potato or grab on a potato I make it and eat it because theres enough potassium in it that eating a ton of salt after that its not going to cause a migraine thats really interesting and I think my next question along the lines of the carnivore approach is and you alluded this a bit of the beginning I there is some ranges when you have situations with runaway ketones but assuming the person isnt having an issue like that is there a standard ratio of fast approaching that you aim for is it something similar to like the Paleo ketogenic diet folks where theyre like a two-to-one ratio if thats the protein it depends on Im beginning to find if you have a lot of athletes particularly two kids Jenny grew up and so there it can actually increase the we go up new now this is in a process of changing we go up to 2.5 grams of protein per kilogram that is how we so far have been measured we go max to that level I probably go revise that though because I dont find it sufficient so Im just in the process so for right now we really are in the ketogenic group it is approximately lets see its four times as much in terms of calories four times as much protein as carbohydrates and thats probably going to change to be perhaps five times as much I will probably reduce the fat a little bit so the carbohydrates is pretty much as 20 grams if possible or less unless the calories taken in are huge and then we can change that but I think that the protein is to increase and also I find if you have what some of the other or some of the literature about problems with colon absorption and what we are finding out many of us have run 23andme genetic tests now I know a genetic test doesnt mean that we have a particular problem even if you showed a variant but it shows that it can have the problem and then we go and have a blood test for homocysteine and other things some dignity discovered that many migrants have insufficient choline processing and so that would require a higher level of protein consumption as well with some modifications such as egg yolks and liver and other kind of stuff but I its its a fluid moving target at the moment it talk to me about meal frequency because theres a lot of research out there that suggests that you know prolonged intermittent fat you know different types of fasting schedules promote things that are potentially good for us things you know I thought geez one you always hear about but does that have any role does meal frequency how many role in your treatment protocols right tremendous role so the three type of diets have three types of rules in terms of time versus feeding or intermittent fasting but before I even get into that it it has to be said that fasting of any kind for a migraine brain is gold that is the best thing that we can do so if I were to come down with a migraine right now the first thing I would do is not eat as long as I have a migraine I would need and it would just simply stop the migraine within a few hours so that is a fantastic thing so fasting has a major role in my being prevention and thats primarily because of the celery recovery that happens after 16 hours of fight of fasting so in the protocol group we dont fast because this the food and the medicine that people take we have these interactions between being in ketosis and many of the medications particularly those that affect the heart and cross the blood-brain barrier and you know them do so we have restriction there but theres already only eat three times a day so we cut out all the snacking that is the first thing that we do then we move into the zero carb the zero carb is when theres no carbohydrates I mean theres no dairy just meat and fat very we dont allow migrant or any kind of fasting because of the runaway ketones which ever mention later we have a problem that the migrants body is not able to immediately switch over to gluconeogenesis in the right way so not able to create a proper amount of glucose and release a proper amount of glucose so there is eat protein whenever you feel like you need some protein whenever you hungry or whenever this is a time to day when you usually get a sugar crash whatever it does often as you want but its only meat and fat on the corner where that contains dairy its a little bit different so there theres a little bit more flexibility so they can start a little bit of intermittent fasting so most people on the carnivore diet follow the time restricted feeding of 16 8 for example so for 16 hours of not eating in 8 hours within the 8 hour period they can eat as much as they want and I dont put restrictions on that of how often they can eat it in the 8 hours they can eat all through the 8 hours for all I care it has to be the proper food which has to be bit in the corner of a diet understanding that they can eat as often as they want meaning that a door window and what we find is that a lot of people after 16 8 and up at 18 6 I am pretty much at 23 1 how most days and so it has a huge functionality in a ketogenic diet we encourage also intermittent fasting I dont recommend anymore the 3-day faster longer and thats because we have such low blood pressure and heart rate that what I found and two other people also fun is on the third day of fasting the heart rate drops tremendously on the blood pressure drops so from a gunner already with a low blood pressure and a low heart rate thats not beneficial so I usually pull the plug from for everyone – not fast longer than 48 hours so thats usually the max that we do and in terms of how frequently many people say well I would like to fast for two days I dont know every two weeks and I said why two days of from Longos and all studies shows it replaces the immune system so why do we want to stress the body to replace a new system every single month twice it doesnt make any sense so we try to do the two day fast say twice a year unless the person has an autoimmune disease in which case we do want to force the body to to recover faster and replace the immune system a couple of times to recover from the other immune disease a little bit faster but generally speaking the one to two day fast goes for a couple times a year and a regular reading 24-hour fast as often as they wish you come in it that people are on the quote-unquote zero carb diet which is basically just you know animal products and no dairy you tell them theyre not supposed to fast but so then they eat based based according to their appetite I would assume I mean youre not going to force them to eat when theyre not hungry they just eat as adalah beat them you know just when they feel like it basically is that correct and this is where we find a problem I recommend two things for it first of all they have to keep on checking their blood glucose particularly the beginning that they start zero carb diet is very restrictive for a Migron era Im not saying for the population in general but just the Mariners its very restrictive and because of the trouble of their liver and the pancreas not communicating properly and insulin is all over the place and because its not available that its needed in it too much is available not needed they can have extremely low glucose and so they may or may not even feel that they have extremely low glucose tundle feels shaky and whatever when this blood glucose is still in the hundreds others will not feel anything when they already in sixty its really scary so they have to keep on checking they recommend at least three times a day particularly under zero carb diet – even more often to check in see whats happening and if the blood glucose hits 70 start eating it doesnt need to be much or if you dont eat then start exercising so these are two two things and then if they exercise we do a lot of sit-ups and squats and that kind of things as a result of that dont recommend jumping DK run if they feel running and they check their blood glucose and usually it brings it up to 80s sometimes even 90s and the fine and they dont have to eat sometimes its not working and its really frustrating but they can be doing a hundred squats and its still not working and their blood glucose just keeps on dropping and dropping and dropping thats when you be bringing in that okay you have to eat 2 ounces of steak or burger or something right chicken breast something that will allow your body to release glucose faster you can best would be a pretty fast one so you are I mean are you in the United States and where are you located physically right now Im probably a block away from the I dont know any Southern California you know I mean Im in Im in Orange County Laguna hill so I dont know if youre nearby well maybe well have to hook up in real estate its ten miles south of me north of you okay maybe youre like whered you say Anaheim Hills wait um yeah okay here by Disney World basically yeah so so let me ask you a question because youve got you know youve got a PhD in in in economics you know with with the you know the focus on neuro neural you know neuroscience so youve got people in here that are on medications theyre on topamax and maybe on you know propranolol or other beta blockers how are you dealing with that are there are there physicians involved to manage coming off of those medications how do you how do you get around that particular ation because you know prescribing and e-prescribing medications is kind of the purview of physicians and so what are you doing to manage that particular issue right this is a very important question because making it really tricky obviously Im not a doctor Im an MD so I dont have the right to tell anyone to come off the medication or starting medication so yes they have to get an approval and also they have to be supported by the doctors for the proper reduction so what I do is I have a schedule which is much slower than the standard pharmaceutical schedule with reduction and I have them print out and give it to the doctor that is it the schedule would the doctor supported it requires refills for a much longer time not all medications can be cut so we need smaller doses it may have to become you know some somehow made available to be able to reduce but they always need to have a doctor agreement now we find that there are many doctors who keep their patients out of the office its really really sad so we have migrants who have to change doctor just for the reduction of the medicine its extremely sad we have got to the point that in some cases the magnitude simply cant find a doctor that is willing to support a reduction and the Michener says help Im in the u.s. I can decide that I want to take me so I dont and then its a responsibility of the migrant and we will support the Magnar if the migrant decides that no my doctor says I shouldnt then on my going to fine no problem with that but they cant start the ketogenic diet I cant enter ketosis so we watch that as well because of the interaction interactions so

once they understand the hot interrupter a study in between and what we find is that many doctors who presented reject after a while as they see their patients completely recover they fully support our protocol many of them end up reading the book many of them are in my group and some of them I actually work with and they contact me but I have des what do I do now so its really funny that Im doing that but yes Im working with the doctors Im not working against them and I clearly dont recommend anything a doctor wouldnt recommend the doctor has to support everything every changes and also I have a list of blood tests I recommend for my am I going to take and they have to get the prescription for those from the doctors so they very much involved yeah I mean its and I hope like I said one of the things Im working on is trying to find a listing of physicians that are supportive to these types of diets you know whether its animal-based or you know keto and stuff like that and you know were gonna be launching something called animal based nutrition network.com soon and so were be looking for people that are supportive of those guys so people have a resource you know if you have a doctor you its your right particularly in the United States you can you can just change a doctor you know get a new one a lot of cases you know and so thats thats thats good what you mentioned exercise in Zach and I are obviously both big exercise fans how do you incorporate that how essential is that to incorporate I mean not everybody can go out there and run a hundred miles or do 100 squats when they first come theres a lot of people that have many many many health issues you know and you know Im sure its not unique to migraines how do you how do you incorporate exercise and why do you incorporate exercise okay very good question so exercise you know all all this helps us everybody feels better from exercise so it has in terms of on my trainer to start an exercise is very difficult because even if the my gardener doesnt have my beam pain the McGregor may be dizzy may have our tea go may be vomiting may not feel an arm or a leg or maybe half the body so Aurra oh you cant see so there are some limitations its very difficult to start so the first thing of course is you have to feel well enough to actually be able to exercise so what we find is theres a quite a bit of period and this goes back to how long it takes to recover for a maganet is just to be able to start working out some of the my burners are very very young and havent had migraine for so long so they can get back to the field and work out right away but some it takes years it took me years to get back to exercise and we also have to have a special protocol for the exercise so let me give you an example we have a marathon runner who ran a marathon actually two weekends ago and the preparation for the marathon she decides shes my kid Jenna group and she decided to to totally do it under ketosis so we put her on to the marathon fasted which was really fascinating because you wouldnt think that fasting is a good idea to go and run your first marathon right but it is well first in terms of now because since the migraine but actually as I mentioned earlier if I had a my bean I would go fast right so if you go faster to your marathon not a lot of sense because youre not gonna get my doing during the marathon that sort of excludes it that the preparation is a lot of salt and water beforehand and during so Shay for example had these little models fight to her hand which is salt waters in in them and she would stop even on then in the station as well to drink water but she had salt packets so she could put salt into it and we also think salt capsules or pills what it was available and so I for example but my weightlifting my training is one hour long and its pretty heavy duty lifting by now and so every 20 minutes I have to take a salt pill or Im just gonna die so its salt pill and water is necessary so oneself peel which is about three and it make its radiance 60 milligrams sodium with a glass of water which is eight ounces so we kind of have to and we have to measure this also today they all have apps on the phone and you have to measure so to prepare for the exercise we start about an hour and a half earlier and we salt up and water up so we have enough to to start and go then all through the exercise we increase our salt and water intake and then after the exercise like after the marathon I recommended that she starts with a glass of milk which is what she did because that provides the electrolytes necessary also some protein right away which is a good thing and then she can return to whatever eating so we do encourage a slow get go on but all be always be cognizant of the need for salt and for protein yeah interesting points it just about your your your point about milk being an electrolyte source because milk is basically its basically its basically you know ultra filter to blood basically and so blood contains a lot of electrolytes or blood sodium levels are pretty similar to salt water I mean you know we were we were saltwater creatures before we got on a land so on and so forth and so were very ISO osmotic with with salt water with our blood and likely milk in some degree although milk does have a lot of sodium if Im not and if Im not mistaken let me ask you about another topic theres something called a scintillating scotoma or an ocular migraine or visual migraine where people have these little almost like a blind spot like are you seeing that as part of it I mean you can cook do you consider that in the realm of migraine headaches and and and is that something you see people talking about yes actually if you look at my book I have added to the standard aura I believe 34 more and these are incorporated included as it turns out literature said that very few percent I think it looked under 20% of migraineurs have aura but if they add all these other kind of visual disturbances Im not talking about auditory just visual disturbances I would say that its more over 80 percent of mariners have them and they have them regularly and those are our programs nearly everybody has them yeah I mean can you discuss more because you know what other ORS are out there that people might not associate with migraines okay so the little point I can have in mind for example is some a steep you a flashlight its almost like somebodys just put a flashlight into my eye and when I look theres nothing there so its and keeps them coming and going it can move around um I have fibers I actually love them which is beautiful and so blue its usually just one color blue or white color things flight toward me and bending you saw disappear some people who will read a line or in a book and suddenly a line will be cross over with something or blocked out they may have a dust or settled us but he can see you may see something that is different from you know when you have a little blood in your eyeball and it kind of floats little floaters when a an aura or a visual disturbance would be a spot that is not floating but you dont actually see through that spot so you have maybe a tiny dot or you may have many dots that look like a whole lot of bugs in there you can have a waviness it can appear like raindrops and it just distorts things we have just so many its really amazing are there any better maybe auditory or otherwise sensory that occur besides the visual stuff some people say that they have the tinnitus for example that would be an auditory but I dont see it as a tram its more like a permanent kind of a thing and it will lessen with the proper treatment that you use it may never disappear though because changes has other reasons as well like the death of that the cilia there could be other kind of noises some people may smell suddenly an order coming up but the question is is that smell really not an existent smell is it something that isnt really there or is it theres just other people cant smell it because you have such strong ability to to smell in here we cant tell if its real or not yeah its kind of light its very very reminiscent of Caesar proteome all the type of symptoms where people will suddenly smell a weird noise and they they you know having to have a seizure can you can we generalize any of this information into headaches in general I know your specialization ISM migraine headaches but I mean theres a lot of people that suffer from all types of headaches cluster headaches tension headaches you know caffeine withdrawal I mean can you can you do you have people outside of migraines conduct you know sort of contacting you say Ive got cluster headaches can you help does this stuff help or do you get you get into that at all yes I do not too often I have several people who have contacted me with cluster headaches and yes its not migraine but it still helped by a same protocol it may not remove it completely and for example thunderclap I had a thunderclap my first one a couple months ago I didnt know what it was so not every headache is going to respond to this kind of treatment its very specific the migraine protocol that I have created with the ionic channels its very specific to target the ionic channels so there could be other headaches a stress headache for example or had a cavity hydration or a headache from lack of food obviously can be solved by the protocol because you drink an Eden so forth a sinus headache we actually have a treatment in the group because were so anti medicine that we use a saline jet nasal jet not not a little thingy that you spray a little bit but the major she hadnt wash it out and it seems like we stopped all of our sinuses before it even happens the sinus headache is nearly a no-go in the pro p2 doesnt exist yes many people come in who have other kind of headaches and and it will help but not everything that I cluster for example will need oxygen right so its not going to help fully but if you remove the irritants theres a chance at the number of cluster headaches you move it may not cure it or prevent it but it will reduce the occurrence yeah I think its a far as fascinating is we kind of this is just something Im seeing involving you talk about oxidation weve had actually guests on here I just think all the people from the different communities come together sharing knowledge you know you know you know online like were doing here is really doing a lot to help advance knowledge very rapidly possibly more rapidly than we see with the traditional methods which you know FDA drug trials which take many many years and theres a lot of problems with that you know you know just just just a number of them that we dont have to get into but its very refreshing to see all these people coming together and sharing their information both as patients and is you know practitioners and learning because this is something I really enjoy so I was act as – we learned something every time we have somebody on the show and we eventually build out a kind of a you know I guess a protocol for a lot of people you know for me obviously Im biased I just think it really means youll eat a bunch of meat or be good but but its fun to have you on here so tell us where we can find you how they can where is a group your your you you you have the the online group and where people that want to get a holy you can find you and what what you might have coming up sure I have groups and several blogs so the best way to get ahold of me is to look on Facebook for a group that is called the stent Merriam protocol for mariners who want to be cured but that is not one and theres a ketogenic I spent on ketogenic diet so we have to my to my engrams there they can also just google my name it comes up right away for the for the the Facebook groups and also for the books that Ive read and a couple of blogs I also not have a nonprofit that Ive run which is endowed very generously by a migrant or so we can support giving gifts to mariners who needy and we have licensees now who are doctors we have an MD from Canada for example who is an MD and who is following the protocol liter mega nurse so if you if they google my name and to a stent under a lot of Angela stent and so Angela is patent PhD they can find me theres also a blog that is not mine but Id write a lot of articles there and thats called hormones matter its wrong word for most Mary calm and that is a company that focuses on all kinds of hormonal issues as well as obviously migraines and people who are flogs and several issues and so Im an a writer for them and of course twitter my handle is migraine book and an email they can obviously email me at Angela at migraine – book calm did we forget to ask you anything or its about I try to try to try to extract as much information as I can to by if theres something you really want to share with us please do so theres just one thing ketones run away if you remember that and I think thats important because it is so ignored and I have heard a lot of people who just jump into ketosis at first and follow immediately and never measure their blood ketones which would be beta hydroxy butyrate they just measure the urine and they dont actually know if they are the kind of people who may fall into danger and in among migrants I I strongly recommend for Mariners to always check their blood ketones because what we find is that they are having a very difficult time going into ketosis without having a major sugar crush down into the 60s in milligram per deciliter and having what I call runaway ketones so what is when I make ketones ketones and this is my Fenian ball like establishing in three groups there would be the the nutritional ketosis starvation ketosis and so forth and so the nutritional ketosis ends at 3.5 mini mold turtle leaders so if I magnin your pet reaches 3 in the blood mist or ketones we dont use it so that means the buddies probably at about 3.5 already so at that time the my NGO needs to stop ketosis right there they need to increase protein thats when the chicken breast meat comes up with high glucose because at that time the ketones can run away into the fours and fives we had so many running to the eighth with high glucose and high insulin its ridiculous that is possible to be done so we cant count on insulin and ketone being in a precise see seesaw it doesnt work like that for a minor so this can be a major problem so if theres one thing I would like to just for takeaway is if your marinara and thinking of ketosis measure the blood ketones its like most important than anything else alright great stuff Zack anything else before we eat before I go before I go eat me something that was a fun podcast Angela its been great to have you on and its always fun to explore a category that we havent talked about yet so migraines is a new one and Im sure our listeners will enjoy it will will link some of those those websites and social media handles to the so the show notes too so listeners can can find you easily by clicking on that but otherwise have a great rest today and thanks for coming on Thank You same to you both and have a great day and enjoy your meals Im gonna have mine alright thank you very much thank you bye bye hey folks human performance outliers podcasts is growing and due to the growth we are looking to take on some new sponsors so if you feel like your company or organization would be a good fit for our audience please do not hesitate to reach out to HP o podcast at gmail.com thank you thank you for listening to this episode of the human performance outliers podcast with hosts dr. Shaun Baker and Zak bitter if you enjoyed the show please consider following us on social media and checking out our websites links to those can be found in the show notes also if you have any questions or comments please do not hesitate to shoot us an email at HP o podcast at gmail.com thanks again for tuning in to the show

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